Disclaimer, because this article is pretty offensive in some ways:
I like that it was written from an adult perspective, and that it cites many of the reasons supporting not having your son circumcised. The perspective spin is what intrigued me, not the attacking nature of the author. I forget sometimes that when I post things people can't hear my internal monologue that often disagrees with the tone of an article, and often entire sentences or paragraphs. If I repost something it's because I like the general gist of the article and any relevant info contained in it. I rarely agree with everything an author says, and most certainly do not always agree with all of an author's personal opinions. If you read something and think "wow, I can't imagine Nicole saying/thinking that," then more than likely I didn't like that part of the article either.
http://www.stayathomemomologues.com/2011/06/its-cleaner-now.html
Wow. I think that is completely ridiculous and bordering on offensive. We were there for Alex's and he didn't push us away, scream hysterically (he screams louder now when I take something away that he shouldn't play with). From the get go parents have to make decisions that permanently effect their children for life. You make decisions to breastfeed or formula feed. You make the decision how to go about weaning (whether it be purees or BLW). You make the decision to CIO or not. You make many life impacting decisions (yes those things have physical and emotional repercussions like obesity, mental health disorders, risks for cancer, etc). I'm going to assume that since you are continuing to push this issue (without actually having a son yet) that you won't be piercing your daughters ears or anything like that. Regardless of what that lady says, that is permanent too. My ears still get infected at least once a month, requiring me to clean them with peroxide. They get red and swollen and they hurt, unlike my son's circumcision. They never closed up and I haven't worn a pair of earrings in probably 10 years. Making people feel guilty for circumcising their sons like this woman is is just rude and uncalled for. I love you dearly, but this lady doesn't sum it up for me. I'm sorry her husband is regretful about his circumcision but I would not be any means say that is the norm. Having studied human sexuality and had many open conversations with male classmates, never once did they say they hated their penises or had dulled sexual experiences without their foreskin. Just a ridiculously extreme post. While I do agree that I wish there was something more they would do to sedate babies (though they can't)...especially after having to hold my son down while they shoved a catheter in his penis without any numbing agent or pain killer a few weeks ago...I don't agree that circumcision should wait until they are older. Honestly, yes babies are people too, but you are a parent and you are required to make decisions about their welfare. That doesn't make that parent abusive or sadistic (like I believe this lady is making it) because they believe they are doing the right thing by their son. Ugh. Okay, that's all (I already said more than I meant to). When I made this decision, I was doing it because I don't want my son to go through what my grandfather did. You see that as silly, but I don't.
ReplyDeleteRachel, I understand why you made your decision, but I will never agree with it. The story I posted is very dramatic, yes, but the fact of the matter is I will not be making that decision for my son.
ReplyDeleteAs to piercing my daughter's ears? No, I will absolutely not pierce her ears without her asking to have them done. I think it's ridiculous that people pierce their babies' ears. I was 6 years old when I got my first holes, and I asked for them, and I have never regretted it. There is no way I will pierce Anne's ears without her consent or wishes.
The only comment I take offense to is your assumption that just because my child isn't a boy, you seem to infer that I don't have the right to have an opinion on this subject. But the fact of the matter is, I have a CHILD. It doesn't matter that she's female or male. I have an opinion on the subject because I've had a newborn PERSON and there is no way I would make that decision for any future son. Take every single issue away from circumcision, whether it prevents infection, whether they feel pain, whatever, none of that even matters to me. The fact of the matter is human males are not born broken, they are born just exactly with all the body parts they're supposed to have, and I will absolutely not do what I feel is cosmetic surgery on a human being without their consent. End of story.
Also, I'm not "pushing" the issue. Notice I didn't even post this to facebook, where many, many more people read what I write than this blog. But I did like the way she wrote the story from an adult's perspective because I think it gave a new take on the issue; the primary thing being that you're performing surgery on a person who can't possibly understand what you're doing to them and who isn't consenting to have part of their body removed forever. If you're happy with your parenting decision to circumcise your son, great for you. It's not illegal so you have every right to do it. But there is absolutely nothing you can say that will make me be okay with it.
ReplyDeleteI am not inferring that you can't have an opinion on it...but why continue to post things specifically on this when it is not an issue you have to deal with yet? You are welcome to your opinion, but who are you trying to convince with these posts? I get why you post about breastfeeding, you are a breastfeeding mother. I get why you post on CIO, you are a mother. I get why you post on co-sleeping, you co-sleep. I even get the initial post on circumcision. But to continue with it, I don't get. You made your point and I am glad that you feel so passionately about it for your own children. I would hope that you would. You don't have to agree with my decision with Alex. Let's say reading all this did make me feel guilty and I had a change of heart...would that do any good since it's already done? What good are you doing by posting such a horrendous post that is clearly meant to make parents who chose to circumcise feel horrible for what they have done, that they are sadistic people (he screams I don't want to be circumcised, but I ignore his pleas and tell the doctor to proceed...seriously?!). There is nothing good about this post.
ReplyDeleteI don't want you to be okay with my decision to circumcise Alex. It wouldn't change anything whether you agree with me or not. I am simply pointing out, what exactly is the agenda of continuing to post things like this (this one actually being very radical) when you have no son yourself? When you haven't been faced with this decision or are potentially faced with this decision in the very near future.
I don't believe Alex was born broken either, your original post has made both Bryan and I consider the possibility of leaving our next son, if that be the case, uncircumcised after we do our own research. I did it, with the knowledge of what my grandfather went through, knowing that MANY of our men and women are in very unsanitary conditions for months at a time where there is a good potential of this very same thing happening to Alex. I don't want him to go through the pain in a battlefield or a foreign hospital that isn't sterile. I would prefer he have it done by a surgeon that is certified to do it, has done it many times on a daily basis, and in a clean sterile environment while I can help keep it clean while it heals (for the week it took to heal). I know you think that reason is stupid and absurd, but that is EXACTLY why we did it. I can't change that no matter how many of these posts you make. The argument that many other countries are much less sanitary and leave their men uncircumcised isn't valid to me because honestly other countries have much highly infant morality rates and smaller life spans. I don't want to be basing my decisions off other countries for that reason.
She says parents have no excuse, well yes they do. Same reason parents put rice cereal in bottles of 8 week old babies...it's all they know to do. We were only doing what we knew to do and I will research it and decide what is right for our next son. I don't know what they may be, but post like this one are not helping the argument of the "don't circumcise" side. I see them as radical (much like I see the excuse that you want your son to "look" like Daddy as a reason to circumcise). You are going to win people over with research...hard facts. Not passionate, ridiculous posts like this.
ReplyDeleteWe are parents, where do you draw the line in the sand at what is okay to decide for your children and what isn't? You can't draw that line because it is fine. Like I said in my post...all decisions you make will affect your child in the long run. Do I think Alex is going to be enraged that we had him circumcised and feel like he has been cheated out of more pleasurable sexual experiences? No. Do I think that what I did was wrong given the information I had? No. I could be wrong, but I have to hope that the decisions I made for him were good natured and in his best interest and that he will see that. You yourself said you would have circumcised if you had a son! You didn't read this information until well after the birth of your daughter, so how can you continue to point the finger and say what I did was wrong? It wasn't wrong. Now, you have a valid point with future son's if I do research and can't find a medical backing for continuing to do it, but not with Alex. If all I find is that this is cosmetic surgery, then you would have a valid reason to disagree with my decision. That is my point.
Wow, ok, first of all, you need to remember that my blog is NOT written only for YOU, and is, in fact, not a personal attack on you either. In fact, it's not really written for anyone but myself, honestly, and if anyone else cares to follow along feel free. I posted it because I liked the perspective, as I said before. Do I agree with everything she said? No, but really radical things make people *think* even if you don't agree with what it says or how it was said (which, by the way, I'd like to point out that I am NOT the author). I reposted it so I could locate it again later if I wanted to and I have every right to do so.
ReplyDeleteWho am I trying to convince if I post about circumcision? Anyone who reads it. Just because you circumcised one son doesn't mean you have to circumcise future sons. Just because your husband was doesn't mean your son has to be. And that's the point.
If you did feel guilty (though guilt is not really the emotion I'm aiming for) and had a change of heart would it do any good? Hell yes, it would, because it would mean you would leave a future son intact. It might also mean that you might encourage other mothers to leave their sons intact. This issue is important to me because I'm a mother, and I have friends that have sons (some intact, some not). More importantly, I have LOTS of friends that are younger than me who do not have children yet. In fact, I have one younger friend who has already said she will not circumcise a future son *because* of the article I posted on my facebook. If I can make a difference, I will. It's not an issue I'm going to drag up repeatedly; I have one friend who's literally an intactivist and posts something on it almost every day. But this is MY blog and I'll post whatever I feel like posting!
Rachel, if I had had a son instead of a daughter and circumcised him without doing research, and then learned what I know now, I would personally feel terrible about it. I would admit that I had made a mistake and would probably apologize to my son once he was old enough. However, I don't think it's the end of the world if a parent makes a bad decision. It happens, we're human. There may be some research some day that says that not sleep training my daughter was a horrible mistake and if they can give me good convincing evidence that I was wrong, I'll admit that. Again, you made this decision for your child...which means YOU have to be either okay with it or willing to admit you made a mistake, EITHER ONE. But that doesn't mean, in any circumstance, that I have to say it was okay for you to cicumcise your son in my opinion. I don't think it was okay that my husband or any other man was circumcised as an infant.
It's not a judgment on the parents' decision so much as a judgment against the act itself. Every parent does (hopefully) what they think is the best thing for their child. I don't think you deliberately tried to harm your son by having him circumcised. But I hate that our society has propelled this surgery and made it acceptable, even advised, for many years for unfounded reasons. The change has to start somewhere.
I'm sorry you're offended by the article I posted. I agree, it is a bit offensive. It's supposed to be. It's supposed to make you think. But I also didnt' write it, and if I had I probably would have written it a bit differently.
Do I think you're a bad parent for circumcising your son? No, of course not. You made a decision based on the knowledge you had and 100% good intentions. Even if you decide to circumcise a future son, I assume it will still be with 100% good intentions. But I will never be okay with it, and you need to accept that and move on.
I agree with Rachel that the article is a bit offensive because it does seem she is making a point to call we who have circumsized, bad parents. I think the reason it is personally offensive to us is that I can't imagine you, Nicole, saying such things to us to our face.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for standing up for what you believe in but when you start to bash other people it becomes somewhat intolerable.
I find it very admiral that you post what you believe to your blog and I will continue to read it. I do agree that since it is your blog that it is your right to post what you want.
I think maybe you should just try to be aware that you will receive negative feedback by the opposing party when they feel they have been slandered or offended by such an article.
Having done my research I don't, personally, regret circumcising Bailey or Liam and would circumcise an future male children I may have.
Also in general, although I believe children deserve our love and to be treated like human beings, it bothers me that so many people put babies on an adult level. They do not have the capability to make adult decisions for themselves or they wouldn't need us. I value Bailey's opinion but somethings I decide for him because I am his mother and I know better than he does what is best for him.
I also could not imagine apologizing to Bailey for circumcising him. After talking to Rodney about it and reading over the articles he agrees that he is happy to be circumcised and thankful he had it done at a young age so he doesn't remember it. I don't Bailey is ever going to look at me and say, "How dare you circumcise me without asking me first!" Not likely to happen, in my opinion.
Anyhow, my point was, I completely respect your opinion but I, too, found the article incredibly offensive and so unlike you, who go out of your way to be kind. :)
Maybe I should put a disclaimer on my post. lol I like that it was written on an adult perspective, and that it cites many of the reasons supporting not having your son circumcised. I forget sometimes that when I post things people can't hear my internal monologue that often disagrees with the tone of an article, and often entire sentences or paragraphs. If I repost something it's because I like the general gist of the article and any relevant info contained in it. I rarely agree with everything an author says, and most certainly do not always agree with all of an author's personal opinions. If you read something and think "wow, I can't imagine Nicole saying/thinking that," then more than likely I didn't like that part of the article either.
ReplyDelete